Quick links: Manuals : Megasquirt info : Forum help page : Downloads. Moderators: jsmcortinamuythaibxr. Return to MS3 General Support. Ms3 with ms3x k24a2 engine from acura tsx General support questions and announcements for MS3.
See also MS3 manuals. Thanks for your help. Megasquirted engines: 4g63, k24a2, bb18, duratec, ecotec, fiat 8vv, modular 4. The TSX mode is coded based on user supplied data and as far as I'm aware they are running it fine. I can supply, repair or upgrade Megasquirts in UK. If you have any idea just let me know. I'm not saying that absolutely is your problem, but you might try testing with a simple light.
At least, check operation of the dial-back on strip telegram group engine with known timing marks. How many degrees is that off? Another ? Thank you very much. What offset number would you like to enter?
Thanks for 4x4 water tank help james. I have a new project utilizing a K24A2 from an 04 Honda Accord Coupe to be retrofitted in a stripped down Coupe chassis with the stock 5 speed transaxle. Which Megasquirt version 1,2,3 is "required" for the engine to run stock. No turbo, no supercharger, just box stock. I can't utilize the Honda ECU because it's for an Automatic and I'm trying to keep the cost down and include the minimum amount of Honda harness and electronics out to make it clean like stowing the immobilizer unit and having to use the Honda ignition and key.
I need for this to function, basically as a stand alone unit in the chassis. Any help is appreciated. I'm using wasted cop mode. I've checked through my records a bit and I don't seem to have clear data on what the VVT cam pulses look like.
Do you have data on that? Do you have the registered version of TunerStudio?September 06, 8 min read Tech Articles 2 Comments. This engine buildup consists of a 2. There are 4 different chassis from which you can locate a bottom end as Honda releases more K24 engines this list may be updated. Honda CRV comes in with 9.
The motor is rated at hp at rpm and lbs-ft at rpm. Instead it only has 2 cam lobes on the intake side and 1 on the exhaust lobe. This motor has no VTEC mechanism on the exhaust cam and runs on 12 valves before rpm with the other 4 slightly opening. It also has smaller ports than the Type S and Type R. The motor also comes with a 5 speed transmission instead of the 6 speed and has no LSD. The Acura TSX comes in with This motor uses a drive by wire throttle and has EGR castings on the manifold.
This motor comes with a 6 speed transmission and no LSD. The Honda Element and Accord come in with 9. If using a K24a4 block the pistons will need to be swapped with aftermarket or a1, a2 pistons to avoid valve to piston contact. This engine is found in the Honda Accord and Honda Element. Is has the same 9. It only has 2 cam lobes on the intake side and 1 on the exhaust lobe. This motor also comes with an available 5 speed transmission and 5 speed auto.
This engine shares the same downfalls with the K24A4 engines as the pistons will contact the K20 cylinder head. This engine is found in the Honda CR-V. It has the common 9. This will interfere with a manual transmission using a traditional intermediate shaft. You must use a block off plate, an oil filter relocation kit use all parts from the K24A series engine to place the oil filter to the upper position you will also need to plug an oil port on the girdle as well as change to a K20A2 oil pump.
This is a picture of the oil port that must be capped off. It should be threaded, however, some reports say it is not. I cannot confirm. First, make sure you have all the necessary parts to perform this engine build. There are many parts that are interchangeable from the K20 motor to the K24A series engine, however, there are differences. Start off by draining all fluids, removing the clutch and flywheel and bolt it to an engine stand. You can then start the disassemblystart by removing the accessories i.
Refer to the illustration for the exploded view of the valve and timing chain covers; Remove these next. The K24 uses a pair of balance shafts in the oil pump and an abbreviated windage tray, that just adds extra weight to the setup so we will be using the K20A2 parts for this.
If you chose to use the cast aluminum pan from the K20A2, remove the steel pan and pump now.
Once you have the block disassembled, a machine shop will be needed in order to drill a hole for the oil cooler. This is not necessary for operation, however, to keep engine oil temperatures down during sustained high revs, it is recommended. To run this setup you will also need a k20 water pump housing as it is different than the k Once you have your bottom end prepped, you can begin to put the cylinder head on. Remember that you will need a K24 head gasket due to the 87mm bore size.
We opted to use a Cometic K24 head gasket for our project. Instead of using the stock cylinder head bolts, we are installing Golden Eagle head studs for this engine.The KA24 was designed to replace the extremely outdated Nissan Z engine. You can find additional information on the KA24 Wikipedia page. The KA24DE is a 2.
HPT K Series Timing Chain Guide -(Version 2) K20 K24 K20a2 K20z1 K20z3 K20a
Part of the reason Nissan used an iron cylinder block was to save money. Early versions of this engine used a SOHC design with three valves per cylinder.How to Check Cam Timing on a 2004 Honda CR-V 2.4 L Engine
Even with its relatively large displacement, the KA24 did not implement balance shafts. Later versions of this engine used a DOHC design with four valves per cylinder which increased power and efficiency.
Oddly enough, Nissan decided to use a shim-over-bucket configuration for the valve train instead of rocker arms. The KA24 uses a Hitachi sequential electronic fuel injection system.
ATI Super Damper K-series
Nissan configured some KA24 engines for front wheel drive vehicles. It makes sense just to adapt the engine for multiple platforms rather than creating an all-new engine. Just like any other engine, the KA24DE has a couple of known issues that are common. The distributor is known for failing on earlier versions of the KA Another prevalent issue is a rattling timing chain, which occurs when the timing chain gets loose from age and begins to rub against the timing chain cover.
Supposedly the alternator fails more than many other vehicles, but we are not able to verify this problem. The last issue is the valve cover gasket which is known for leaking, which is mostly due to the bolt pattern and design of the valve cover. Thanks to the massive explosion of drifting, the SX has become the most popular tuner car in the world.
This kind of build requires full bolt-on, ported and polished head, bigger cams, and possibly a higher compression ratio. Although many people use an eBay turbocharger or the SR20 turbo, the better option is to use a quality turbo. As you may expect, these engines are very similar, but there are a few fundamental differences that separate these engines.
The most significant difference is the cylinder head. The Ka24E was a single overhead cam engine with just three valves per cylinder, and the KA24DE was a dual overhead cam engine with four valves per cylinder. Design improvements of the dual cam engine include the use of a knock sensor, larger diameter girdled main bearings in the Japanese block, different oil pan, different oil pickup, dipstick location, and piston oil squirters.
Looking for help with a project car. Both the wiring harness that came with car and the harness that came with engine are suspect. I have a frontier and wouldnt mind maybe just a bit more power outta the truck but dont want to sacrifice a ton on fuel economy nor spend a ton of money: I just do a LOT of hauling in the old girl in a really hilly area and heavier loads she struggles. Hey all im swapping from a duel fuel 2.
If so, are there significant changes to be made?Our Address. Kings Mills, OH Hello everyone. Jason here in Michigan. Here is what I am working on- honda accord with the K24 which is the 2. I had a random misfire code with codes for misfire on the 3 and 4 cylinders.
It had a rough idle and then made a lot of noise so I took the valve cover off and found excessive slack in the timing chain and a failed tensioner. The chain and guides were replaced two summers ago. I replaced the tensioner. Now the misfire is only in the 1 cylinder. I am not sure if the misfire is related to my problem but I need to know if I am missing something while installing the chain. I made sure that the cams are locked with the Honda cam lock tool. My problem is that after lining up the cam chain timing marks with the dark links on the cam chain, the timing gear marks with each other, and the single dark link with the punch mark on the crankshaft gear there is still a tiny bit of slack in the chain on the intake side.
The problem with that is when you put tension on the exhaust side of the chain it pulls the slack out of the intake side which rotates the crankshaft off TDC a half a tooth on the oil pump chain. Then when the crank pulley is installed it shows the TDC marks off quite a bit.
When you install a new chain, the non-tensioned side should be tight. You basically have to start at the crank and work your way around counter-clockwise while keeping the chain tight at every point. It might also be helpful to remove the tensioner and let that guide hang as you run it as it should give you some more play.
Even half a tooth can throw things off, they really need to be dead on.
Which is of course, the hard part. You just have to keep trying until you get them all to line up properly. Have you checked compression or done a leak down test?
Are you using the correct viscosity oil? If not, it can effect engine performance on that engine. You could have another mechanical issue that has nothing to do with the chain. The mechanical integrity of the engine is often overlooked when diagnosing performance issues like this.
More info and videos on how to do these tests here. Home Topic Honda K24 timing frustration. Honda K24 timing frustration. January 23, at pm Does anyone have experience with this issue or a solution that I am missing? Viewing 2 replies - 1 through 2 of 2 total. January 24, at am January 24, at pm EricTheCarGuy Keymaster.Technical Honda engines just seem to work. All the time.
We expect them to go well beyond the six-digit mile marker. To be sure, the threshold at which a Honda is considered "high-mileage" is above that of most other makes. Follow the recommended maintenance schedules and most any Honda engine will eclipsemiles relatively easily.
But Honda isn't free of imperfections. Such has been revealed most recently among its K-series engines. There's no doubt that Honda's K-series lineup is the company's most sophisticated four-cylinder to date, but it has a weak link-its timing chain tensioner.
First, though, a little background information. Timing Origins Honda's engineers have long been fans of belt-driven valvetrain assemblies. It's only recently that the company's switched to chains in order to link its engines' camshafts to their crankshafts and control valve timing. Perhaps that's because timing belts simply work, and when replaced periodically, are as reliable as any chain.
But timing belts are prone to wear-just as much so on engines that rarely see the light of day as they are on daily driven ones, which is why Honda's timing belt replacement intervals are based on both time and mileage.
Imagine for a moment the stress that's placed on an unused engine's belt as it's continually stretched in one specific region while the rest of the engine takes a breather. Engines that are regularly cycled condition their belts evenly, which arguably adds life to them. The situation isn't much different from the power window regulator that dies first on the window you use least.
Enter The Timing Chain But consumers don't pay attention to things like recommended maintenance schedules. To reduce maintenance further, Honda introduced its chain-driven valvetrain on its S and then later on its K-series engines for the model year. The assembly isn't much different from a belt-driven one, though, save for the whole chain thing. There are still a couple of cam gears, still a crankshaft and crankshaft pulley, and still a tensioner that keeps the chain from falling off, preventing important metal parts from mashing up against one another.
Timing chain tensioners are simple but important. Take Honda's K-series, for example. As the engine rotates clockwise, the crankshaft keeps the intake side of the chain tight simply because of the direction the chain's being pulled, but it's the tensioner's job to do so for the exhaust side.
Without it, the cams would start spinning but ultimately just sit there doing nothing as the chain slips and bounces around. Spin far enough out of sync and watch expensive pieces like valves and pistons start to touch one another.
How They Work K-series tensioners aren't terribly complex and, simply put, do little more than push a small piston back and forth against the engine's timing chain guide, keeping the chain tight. They do so hydraulically-not unlike older H22A tensioners-which means K-series tensioners operate by way of oil pressure, but they also incorporate a small, internal spring for mechanical purposes.
At low engine speeds, when oil pressure is low, the tensioner's internal spring mechanically moves its piston toward the timing chain guide, reducing chain slack on the chain's exhaust side. As engine speed and oil pressure rise, the spring relaxes and oil pressurizes the tensioner's chamber, hydraulically pushing its piston toward the chain's guide.
A check valve ensures the oil doesn't escape prematurely and a release valve lets it out when the tensioner's done, well, tensioning things. Additionally, a ratcheting mechanism and teeth built into the piston ensure that it doesn't retract too far back into its housing and loosen up the chain.
Sounds like Honda has it all figured out. The Problem Unfortunately, Honda's internal tensioner spring doesn't always work as you'd expect, and excess tensioner piston travel more than 0. The results can cause the piston teeth to slam against the tensioner's ratchet, ultimately grinding their tips off, rendering them ineffective.
You see, by design, K-series exhaust valves close rapidly. Each time they slam shut, the chain builds slack. And each time they slam shut, the tensioner's piston bashes against its ratcheting mechanism. Aftermarket cams with aggressive profiles and stiffer valve springs only pronounce this. It should be noted that although dealership technicians have reported worn tensioner pistons on otherwise stock engines, it's more likely once camshafts and springs have been swapped.
Steeper exhaust closing ramps and stiffer valve springs that close the valves even quicker are to blame.Privacy Terms. Hondata Hondata User Forum Skip to content. Quick links. Engine is running great but I have a couple concerns, my cam angle seems to dip down below 0 degrees to Also when cam angle command is anything higher then 20 degrees the cam will not go past 20 degrees.
Both of these can be seen in the data logs. Other issues are the engine sounds like it develops a knock as rpms go past This is not being picked up as a knock so not sure if I should be concerned or not.
Honda K Series Tensioner - The Truth Behind The Failure
This is a completely stock engine with only 30k on it and has never been opened up for anything as far as I know.
I included one datalog with a higher rpm rev and shows no knocks detected. This engine is running on premium fuel and here is the setup. Stock 5 speed transmission Stock ep3 exhaust with modified mid pipe RBB intake manifold with injen short ram intake I have been studying different tuning maps and the kmanager help trying to learn as much as I can.
Just want a safe reliable tune as I drive the car very conservatively with the occasional spirited drive. For now I am using the tsx stock kal provided with hondata. It seems to be working fine other then this high rpm knock sound. I have tried other kals and still see the negative cam value. Other question is should I stick with my stock exhaust?
I have the TSX exhaust manifold that i could install and adapt to a high flow cat, but wondering if it will make any difference. Any help or tips on tuning for a basic reliable setup would be greatly appreciated.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post. As the link you provided states the cam adjusts to 25 degrees and mine will only adjust to 20 degrees.
I also know this needs a professional tune but am not going to spend the money on it until I have the car set up the way I like, and any issues like this repaired first. Thank you and I appreciate any help. Check you cam timing. Could this be a timing chain problem, possibly chain tensioner? Any help on diagnosing this problem? I will do my own research in the meantime.
I did take the intake cam sensor off my ep3 engine to help fit my wire harness better as the k24 sensor clips in straight up. If the sensor is an issue I can modify wiring to fit k24 sensor. Will pull valve cover off when I get a chance and check intake cam timing. Has anyone ever heard of an engine with the cam timing off from the factory? As far as I know this engine has never been opened up for anything.
The ' 1' and ' 4' should be horizontal on each sensor wheel.Quick links: Manuals : Megasquirt info : Forum help page : Downloads. Moderators: jsmcortinamuythaibxr.
Return to MS3 General Support. See also MS3 manuals. Megasquirted engines: 4g63, k24a2, bb18, duratec, ecotec, fiat 8vv, modular 4. I do not know what else to do. I have 4 K series motors. Honda uses the exhaust cam sensor for timing and the intake sensor for VTC angle measurement. For simplicity, I have made an intake cam angle sensor with only one tooth ground off the other three and used it with a dial back timing light to get my cam angle measurements.
I just unplugged the VTC selenoid and put the timing light on the crank and dialed it until it said the cam was at 0 degrees. Keep your engine above rpms when doing this. You only need to use and it mostly runs at 30 degrees for cruising and 0 for idle. Under high rpms you will non turbo under VTEC degrees. Now, I do not use closed loop for it but I am sure you can buy connecting the intake modified single tooth cam sensor to MS3 and use it that way.
As for those saying the VTC is slow, thats only a mattter of opinion and certainly not why they have 12 individual tables for VTC timing. That is so it can interpolate any fuel pulse and spark timing at any angle and any load at all times making it very accurate and fast It takes 0.
I have a video of the cam response time someplace I will post it The loss of powerand fuel economy by not using the VTC ability is huge. Sorry for those not able to understand its function and capabilities.
Did you remove all but one tooth on the cam sensor? This would cause it not to work in COP mode which sounds like your problem. Are the wires from the intake cam shielded? IMO it looks as though the tooth count is not correct between the crank and the cam They may have written it using the intake cam sensor patter and not the exhaust.
I modified my sensors to work since I knew ahead of time there wasnt a code specifically for the Honda K series. Since you already have the engine together, cutting teeth is not an option for you. You need to find out wich cam sensor the code your using was written for. The intak CAS wheel has 5 teeth, the exhaust has 4 teeth. The intake has 4 teeth 90 degrees apart just like the exhaust but has one extra small tooth at TDC.
Did they use intake or exhaust CS for timing?